I just wanted to get some thoughts from everyone on the EU and on the smart chip, the Digital Angel System.
What are your thoughts?
What are your thoughts?
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Re: European Union
Thu, November 11, 2004 - 5:42 PMI think I see where you are going with this....
And no, I don't believe it's a sign of the Apocalypse.
The only problem I had with the EU is that Switzerland didn't join it so all of my spare change from there wasn't worth even exchanging anywhere else... -
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Re: European Union
Mon, November 15, 2004 - 5:12 PMAlso....is this what you are referring to?
"The pager and wrist-monitor system keeps track of the wearer's location and body temperature and sends out alerts when either one exceeds a preset parameter. The location boundary, measured in square miles, can be monitored on the company's website. While this might smack of house arrest to some, it can mean the difference between life and death to a loved one prone to wandering or a hiker stuck in a perilous situation. The system's 911 button alerts caregivers and EMS authorities in the event of an emergency" -
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Re: European Union
Tue, November 16, 2004 - 7:37 AMI am not concerned about the pager or wrist monitor. The KJV Bible states that the mark of the beast will not be on the right hand or forehead but in the right hand or forehead. I believe that the microchips being developed and implamented around the world today will prove later to that mark or a part of it.
I believe that we owe it to ourselves and all who are around us to study the end times as mentioned through out the Bible and complete study on Daniel and Revelation.
I believe that a thorough study of these two books has much to reveal to everyone about the coming things of this world. We must know of them in order to be sure that we place ourselves in the right place with God in order to be taken during the rapture and not left behind to have to struggle and go through the things that are quickly approaching.
I do not worry about the apocolypse. We will not be here, if true Christians. I more discuss it as armageddon as mentioned within the book of Revelation. This is the final battle where Jesus Christ wins and Satan is forever overthrown and sets up his thousand year reign on the earth. When he returns he will be on a white horse and all those who were raptured will return with him, all on white horses. 10 thousand times 10 thousand and thousands of thousands.
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Re: European Union
Sat, November 20, 2004 - 12:18 AM< I am not concerned about the pager or wrist monitor. The KJV Bible states that the mark of the beast will not be on the right hand or forehead but in the right hand or forehead. I believe that the microchips being developed and implamented around the world today will prove later to that mark or a part of it.>
As long as you view it as conjecture (which it is) then, well....ok. The Christian community has long had a history of doing newspaper prophesy, scared alot of people and has proven wrong in every case. (Late Great Planet Earth?)
If you want to speculate that's fine, but there is no way you can say that this device is going to be the "mark of the beast" in any definitive sense.
It also overlooks a few major points. One being that taking this mark is a sign of following the anti-Christ and involves a definitve choice to do so, in which we have no idea what form this mark will take. It could be physical. It could be symbolic. We don't know.
Really. We...don't...know. The saints are also sealed with a mark, which doesn't appear to be physical. It appears to have something to do with economy, not local. Besides which none of what is phophesied leading up to this (which is a good period of time) has not even begin to happen. To start concerning oneself with technology such as this is wasted energy....because let's say for the sake of argument that in many years to come this thing is what the beast uses for it's mark (which I doubt) what would forknowledge of it prevent? Would we take it? No. Is it going to happen? Yes. There's nothing we can do to prevent it.
Our job....is to be prepared in our own hearts and focus on Christ as if he could come tomorrow.
Depending on your eschatology some believe that the church will be raptured before any of the bad stuff goes down. I don't get that at all from scripture. There are clear references to God's people being attacked, the saints marked and a host of other references which make me think that if it does happen in our lifetimes that we are in for a serious time as well. The reference is 1 COR is that the rapture as it is traditionally believed will happen at "the final trumpet"
The final trumpet is at the end.
My point? We don't know the specifics of any of how any of it will manifest when the time comes and we can't say so. I believe God wrapped it up in such symbolic language to prevent us from doing just this. It wastes our energy when we should simply be prepared in our hearts and be lights to a hurting world.
There are bigger things to be concerned about than the Angel software....which by the way discontinued everything other than it's wrist bands.
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Re: European Union
Tue, November 16, 2004 - 7:31 AMI disagree. The EU is the revised roman empire spoken of in Daniel and Revelation. There is much proof. I also believe that they will prove to be the up and coming one world government from which the anti-christ will emerge and appear. -
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Re: European Union
Sat, November 20, 2004 - 12:23 AMSee above.
I don't mean to be flip, but c'mon.....
I'm not saying that it's not possible, but we can't say that it is definitively. -
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Re: European Union
Sat, November 20, 2004 - 12:34 AMagree. Scripture doesn't clearly tell us this; and Jesus said not to be concerned for many things will happen, yet it does not signify the end.
the end will come for all of us, we will all sit at judgement the day we die. That is what we should be busy with, not making some pie in the sky speculations that are born of fear. Where is the love for Christ, if there is such fear of what will happen in the near future? Without trust, there is no love. They go hand in hand. God knows what He's doing, it's not our job to try to figure it out, rather to be concerned only with our response to grace day by day, hour by hour. -
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Re: European Union
Mon, November 22, 2004 - 9:20 AMScripture does not spell out that the "revised roman empire" will be called the European Union. However, all evidence and scripture does point to the european union.
You have to read all scripture in Daniel and the book of Revelation and the other scripture on end times, prophecy, and such in order to be able to look at it all as a whole and know what you are looking at. I have conferred my thoughts and ideas on the subject with many preachers and evangelists who agree.
The power of the EU over the last several years is astounding to say the least. If you want me to post scripture here, books, chapters, verses etc. Just let me know. It will take me a few days to get it all up and in a message, but I can get it so that you all can study it. There is much proof. Of course, at this time nothing is a dead concrete this is it, but have you seen their logo. Straight out of revelation. The things they are implementing around the world is also very astounding proof to who they are. If you want to find out more about them, just go to their own website. You can gain much information there are them and what their goals and objectives are. They are now contemplating on whether or not to allow non-european countries begin applications to become members of the EU. If the EU is not it then it may never happen. I urge Christians everywhere to find out what they can and become active learners about current events and how they all tie in to scripture. As Christians, we should see these things in order to lovingly be able to tell others and get them to see that it is all a part of God's ultimate and perfect plan. We must remember that we must in love warn each other and others because there are many Christians in the world today who do not take the Bible literally or seriously and they believe that being saved is all they need. However, we are, as Christians, charged with spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ to others and being witnesses for Christ to those we are in contact with that are not saved. You can not go around telling people that they are going to hell for doing this and that without turning them further from Christ but there are ways of talking to people and actions that we do that witness more to them than any words we could ever speak to them. Our words must be to others in love.
God will bless us for our devotion and faith enough to spread his word and act according to his word.
Love in Christ,
Sandy -
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Re: European Union
Mon, November 22, 2004 - 11:50 AMWe know the chapters and verses. I've studied them myself.
...but thanks for not listening to anything we had to say.
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Re: European Union
Mon, November 22, 2004 - 5:09 PMI disagree. The EU is the revised roman empire spoken of in Daniel and Revelation. There is much proof. I also believe that they will prove to be the up and coming one world government from which the anti-christ will emerge and appear.
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One could argue this in regards to America as well - but of course, this is only one perspective.
Some other thoughts IMHO:
If God does not come in the next couple of years, the way we apply these prophetic concepts and the mark of the beast become anachronistic very quickly and explicitly. If Jesus does not return during the formation of the EU, what then will be the mark of the beast? Christian fundamentalist interpretation of scripture has been a historical cycle of failed application followed by a re-application to whatever scares the bejeezus out of people afterwards (agreeing with Kevinissimo here) - in my own life, it was credits cards, rock music, the inscription on the pope's hat, promiscuous sex, bar-codes, the EU, microsofts (chip implants conceptualized by sci-fi writer Gibson), etc...I think it is clear the mark is symbolic and represents a mindset and resulting world-view more than anytyhing else.
The purpose of prophecy, on a first read (as given at the time) was never to fortell the future. It was to give Isreal a reality check in regards to what God had planned for a people he chose to spread His good news in relation to its failure to follow through in covenant - even then, it was tendered in mercy. After all the warnings about exile and Babylonian conquest, historical survey shows only a handful of people were actually taken off to Babylon. Others were dispersed but were not decimated. This is not to say it was a good thing. Rather, God seems to have inserted His hand of grace even in wrath.
On the second level, it is not to peg anything in time or to predict current events - that would be akin to predicting when Christ will return. The Bible makes it clear there is no basis for that sort of future-telling. I think prophecy today serves similarly as it did in ancient Israel and, with the hindsight afforded, shows God at work in history as one of many basis for having faith.
I don't personally feel we can demonize the EU - just like I don't see how we could have demonized the Catholic church. Surely, there have been historical entities that have characterized an "anti-christ" function. But that has never superceeded the importance of the freewill of each individual. The mark is then more about each person's assesement of the nature of God and His will. I think Christians and all others alike are all both susceptle to "recieving the mark" as well as being "destined for salvation" by God's loving will. There is no room for demonization in this perspective. Too much of a focus and injection of fear into the notion of the "mark" reveals, at least to me, a perspective that feels salvation is restrictive and by nature willed to be limited to few.
Peace.
MC
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